Kent State U, May 4, 1970-REMEMBER!

[iflitifloat]

Rose, I didn't mean is as an indictment of individuals as much as I did of a group dynamic. I know that there are lots of people opposed to the war, but there's no group sentiment or force behind it like there was back then. The anti-war movement back then had a feel of spontaneous combustion to it...individuals don't have the ability to make that happen.

Again, I think that the draft made it more of a palpable threat back then. Also, the news actually covered the war. Every night there was graphic war footage and body counts were broadcast. News magazines had pictures that kept it real. You can watch the news tonight and not be able to tell we are at war. There is a lot of censorship going on that is making sure that the visuals of the war are kept from being imprinted on the American group psyche.

[Plum]

I think that the Vietnam precedent also makes the reaction to this war more muted. It feels like a kind of backlash, or a regression to the mean. This generation doesn't want to rebel like its parents did.

[Rose_MacShane]

Oh, I know, iflit. I didn't mean to imply that. I was just saying that I agree with what you said; I just didn't like hearing it. The truth hurts, after all...

[brdlwyr]

I am an optimist. There will be a backlash from this last election. 55 million - the most ever - voted against a sitting President. Things will change. I sat through a speech my Senator Lugar yesterday and he barely defended Bush's actions.

Things will change, but we must be confident and optomistic.

[Plum]

Ooh, I'll join in the optimists' club. I think the Republicans have reached the zenith of their power; they're just going to start bickering amongst themselves and disintegrating now, though it'll take a long, long time.

[iflitifloat]

But you know what scares me? I'm guilty, too. Since Black Tuesday when you-know-who was handed four more years to destroy the universe, I find I've spent a lot of time NOT watching, listening to, or reading the news. I'm in avoidance mode, too. Big time.

[brdlwyr]

Iflit - I did not watch the news for weeks also.

I may be an idiot, but I feel that this nasty era is over.

We will win the filibuster debate which will be a start.

[KMF_NYC]

it's too easy to not watch what we in AMerica have called the "news" -- it's a disgrace, right or left....I simply want news -- not an opinion, no screaming heads and no infotainment....

It isn't perfect -- but the only news source I listen to is NPR

[brdlwyr]

NPR was the first to break the woodpecker story. (that is an inside joke with a former friend)

K - I assume that those on this thread listen to NPR (elitists that we are.) But, I do read the Tribune, Sun-Times and NYT.

But I love Katie and Matt.

Ok. I'll go out on a limb, cause it's just one of those night on BWW (and I'm heading to bed shortly, too).

I stopped truly caring who is President. In today's American society I find it difficult that any one individual in that position can honestly make a true positive difference. Sure one will might be goofier than another, and another more erudite, and another more of a an overall leader, and another simply taking up valuable real estate in DC. I believe we are conditioned since grade school to the expectation that only great and powerful individuals become President. Of course, history and reality have proven it ain't so. While I haven't done a study, I would venture to say that about once in a generation does there arrive on the scene a President who truly makes a difference.

Bottom line for me is while I might be disappointed over who wins a Presidential Election, in 9 elections out of 10 the position is bigger than the man, so it really doesn't matter who gets elected.

What would greatly concern me, and cause me to rouse myself from my stupor, is if we ceased having elections.

[Plum]

I think that as the executive branch has grabbed more and more power over the past half-century or so, people have started investing too much in the office of the President. When you say the President "doesn't make a difference," I think you mean something more like "doesn't make the kind of gigantic difference I expect him to." There's only so much one person can do, and the office has swollen out of proportion. Bush's power grabs aren't helping the matter, of course.

But really, I don't see how you can say it makes no difference at all who is elected when you look at the actions of this administration. Can you really say that any other administration would have gone into Iraq?

Well, I don't know what another Administration would have done.

But if not to Iraq, another Administration would have gone somewhere.

The business of American is business. War is business. Ergo, America's business is war.

Horrible thought, but read the history books. In 200 years list the decades when American was not at war somewhere.

Like with any great power in the history of man, nearly constant war is inevitable.

[iflitifloat]

While I'll agree that there is a limit to how much good a president can do, it seems to be exponentially easier for him to do harm. This guy is doing very bad things in very wide-reaching ways that we can't truly appeciate yet. But for starters, just think of his lack of understanding of, and disrespect for the Constitution. He's got a personal agenda, a lot of friends with money, and god help us, he's just not that smart. I believe that an astounding amount of damage can be done in the next three years.

[Plum]

Jose', there's going to be crap happening in this country no matter who's President. But there's the usual crap, and then there's crap that has the potential to plunge us into disaster. Deploying on an unecessary war when you're already in the middle of a necessary one, therefore going beyond your military capacities and earning the rancour of most of the rest of the world, strikes me as being closer to the latter than the former.

Very true. You know I don't disagree with you on that.

Perhaps we should simply post pictures of our pets and forget about it all?

Actually, a Pets as Politicians series might be quite funny.

Famous pictures from history with pets replacing the humans?

[Plum]

I only ever had a couple of goldfish. Stupid family pet allergies.

[PalJoey]

Jose, of course the leader of a nation makes a difference. Would you say that Lincoln didn't matter? Roosevelt didn't matter? Churchill didn't matter? Even Giuliani (during and after 9/11)?

A leader leads. (Or he should.) A leader inspires. George Bush has divided the country, diminished its stature and pushed it into deficit.

But to defend him by saying that "no leader matters" is a specious argument that is beneath you.

PJ, read my posts again. I probably could have been more clear. I didn't think I sounded as if I was defedning Bush, or saying Lincoln or Roosevelt or Guiliani didn't make a difference.

"In today's American society I find it difficult that any one individual in that position can honestly make a true positive difference...


While I haven't done a study, I would venture to say that about once in a generation does there arrive on the scene a President who truly makes a difference.


Talking about Broadway is so much easier, and less complicated.

[PalJoey]

Every president makes a difference, positive or negative, as does every elected and appointed official, as does every voter for that matter. Apathy breeds tyranny.

[PalJoey]

Remembering the four dead in O-hi-o and our lovely iflitifloat.

[brdlwyr]

KMF Plum, this was my first year on BWW!

I may be an idiot, but I feel that this nasty era is over.  OMG was I naive!

[sabrelady]

Remembering Iflit too, PJ.

 

[NYadgal]

Every single day.  

[PalJoey]

What would she make of this presidential election...?