Beyoncé

[@z5]

I got tickets for her today after trying for over 4 hours :))

 

While I don't at all agree with her politically, especially with the Black lives matter bs, i still love her.

[FindingNamo]

Yeah.  Those black people, always trying to stay alive and sh t.

[tazber]

Jane2 said: "I really can't get over what a big deal a performance by this person is. All these opinions which are posted, aired on TV, etc. Why is this important? Who cares?

 

"

I don't get it either.

 

I don't care for the song at all, but I don't understand why people are freaking out over its politics. She's black. She's writing and singing about her heritage and issues that are important to her.

 

Isn't that what artists do?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[javero]

I personally loathe the song but am not calling for censure or anything.  Several right wing friends of mine who are nut cases have been slut-shaming her for years now on their blogs due to her choice of costumes.  And with primaries in full swing her nod to BLM was predictably going to earn her the wrath of the Giuliani and other GOP establishment acolytes.  Her immense success places a huge target on her back.  Upshot, she keeps her name on everyone's lips ahead of an album release and a world tour.  At the end of the day, Beyoncé is a brand.  Don't mean to point out the obvious. 

[Liza's Headband]

If she genuinely cared about the BLM movement, she'd actually advocate for them and maybe even donate some of her massive fortune ($600+ million) to the cause... not write a ****ty song that vaguely eludes to it. What a pathetic cop-out. 

[FindingNamo]

BUT FIRST YOU WOULD MAKE HER SWEAR SHE DOESN'T WANT DEAD COPS IN ALL CAPS

 

#neverforgetthebandisafoxsucker

 

Speaking of hypocrites, band, are you just back from New Hampshire where you canvassed and "donated your time and money" (as you once put it) to getting the Bern to #1??????????

[ErikJ972]

I would just like to remind everyone that Liza H is NOT a Bernie Sanders supporter.

[FindingNamo]

That's because he doesn't vote.  But he spent so many months hectoring everybody else, CAPSing that unless they voted for his choice, (for whom he wasn't voting), they were pathetic wastes of human life. 

 

And he specifically said he was donating time and money to the cause he cared so deeply about.  He didn't just "elude" to it.

[Jane2]

Taz said "I don't care for the song at all, but I don't understand why people are freaking out over its politics. She's black. She's writing and singing about her heritage and issues that are important to her.

 

Isn't that what artists do?"

 

Taz, exactly, but I'm saying why is Beyonce so important period? That's what I don't get.

[javero]

Jane2,

 

Your question wasn't aimed at me but I'd like to suggest that a cult of celebrity.  It seems that simply being an artist is no longer enough; an artist must be a popular artist or even better, a brand to remain relevant for more than a 7 day news cycle.  I acknowledge Beyonce's accomplishments in show business even though I've never purchased any of her records.  IMO her performances are as newsworthy as another other performing artist's.  However, I tend to feel that pop artists are given way too much credit for their so-called efforts at consciousness raising.  I often get the impression that their handlers are the ones pulling the strings.

[FindingNamo]

But that's probably been true since at least Warhol, no?

[Jane2]

javero - well said. This is probably a generational issue with me. I just don't see where she's so great an artist. Thanks for your reply.

 

Namo- no way can you compare Warhol with Beyonce. Yes, there was plenty of hype with Warhol, but he started a major genre of art which has influenced our entire society in an important way. He's one of the most important figures in art history, which can't be denied whether you get his work or not.

 

[javero]

I'd agree, Namo.  In the political arena Trump has taken branding to a whole new level.  One pundit recently suggested that he's been in all our living rooms brandishing his leadership credentials for years.  He can get away with saying the "p" word for female genitalia on the campaign trial because he's a celebrity, not a politician.  Jesus, take the wheel!

[Jane2]

what I'm saying, Namo,  is with Warhol, it wasn't much ado about nothing.

[CarlosAlberto]

Eh. Warhol. I don't get what's so brill about painting Brillo boxes and soup cans or covering photographs with day-glo colors...but that's just me.

 

[javero]

Just to keep things fair and balanced, there was one Beyonce performance that brought tears to my eyes.  She was so in love with a man whom her inner circle roundly rejected.  She channeled that anguish and inner turmoil without abandoning the audience.  For someone who had been stage-managed to death by overbearing parents, it was her declaration of independence and a defining moment in her career.  And she looked a million bucks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZelBd4k6k20

[Jane2]

Carlos said "Eh. Warhol. I don't get what's so brill about painting Brillo boxes and soup cans or covering photographs with day-glo colors...but that's just me."

 

I understand that some people don't get it. Nonetheless, Warhol is major in the history of art. Pop art has influenced society more than any other genre, I believe. Yes, of course one genre influenced another, and so on, but Pop Art has influenced more than just other artists.

[javero]

Jane2, just curious, do you believe that Warhol's influence eclipses even the ambit of Hollywood movies, which are the nation's leading export?  I mean both film and canvas are visual mediums for artistic expression but I'm leaning towards the body of film work as the greatest influencer in society presently despite the fact that canvas predates film by centuries.  Furthermore, where does architecture rank?

[Jane2]

Javero, First off, my initial comments were concerned with just the comparison of Warhol vs. Beyonce. In that arena, there simply isn't any comparison. 

 

But you raised some interesting questions. I think movies and visual arts are both major elements in society. But I wouldn't compare them. Films, in  my estimation, can preserve history for us, teach an important lesson, reflect the human condition, create alternate universes, and so on. There are no boundaries in film. And some are deemed so important that they go down in film history. But only in film history.

 

What film and works on canvas, (dating all the way back to the start), have in common is that they both reflect life as seen by the artists. Also, they both influenced the next wave of artists to come. 

 

But - the reason you put more influence on film could be because the general public is more interested in seeing movies than they are in seeing fine art. More people see it, hence more  people are influenced by it.

 

 

 Obviously, Warhol influenced a plethora of other artists. I wonder how many here have seen the Met's poor attempt to portray this in a recent show of theirs. Anyway, Pop Art is visible in so much of life that we probably take it for granted. It is cemented in history, nothing can change it.

 

Architecture ranks even higher than the Pop Art genre as far as influence goes, I think.  From the beginning of time, from caves, to pyramids, to huts, and all the way up to the most avant guard high rises, the influence is immeasurable, I think. 

 

And javero, the beautiful thing is that it's all ART.

 

[FindingNamo]

I was just going to let this sit, but Jane, I honestly think if you take a deep breath and reread my post, you will see I was NOT comparing Beyonce to Warhol.  Thank you.

[Dave19]

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/6723817/f0756c67/gast_over_racisme.html

[Jane2]

 Namo said "was just going to let this sit, but Jane, I honestly think if you take a deep breath and reread my post, you will see I was NOT comparing Beyonce to Warhol.  Thank you"

 

I thought about your post before I made mine, and did wonder if I was correct in that comment or not. I probably used the wrong words so I'll try here. 

 

When you said the big todo such as with Beyonce, was going on since Warhol, I knew right then and there you weren't comparing them. But I think you were comparing the hype. With Beyonce, I do think it's much to do about nothing, but definitely not with Warhol. How's this?

[FindingNamo]

Branding.  Which to my way of reading javero's post, was the overarching main theme, to which I was responding.  

[Jane2]

Javero, in other words, architecture is necessary, but movies and paintings aren't.

[Jane2]

"Branding.  Which to my way of reading javero's post, was the overarching main theme, to which I was responding."

 

Ok,we just disagree. I do think overarching Beyonce happened. I don't think that Warhol's art was overarched. I thought it was that important.

[FindingNamo]

We disagree about what I was writing about?