Assassins the musical- Page 2

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 9/17/12 at 10:30pm

I agree with Frogs (a show I forgot about actually)--I really love the choral stuff from the 1970s original, but the new score (Ariadne aside) does nothing for me.

Gaveston, Passionobviously has a far simpler lyrical style than Sondheim is known for, but he seems to be trying to go back to that with Road Show, IMHO.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/17/12 at 10:35pm

I never found Sondheim at all cold, Kad, not even when I was a teenager and he was at his cleverest. No more so than I find Shakespeare "cold" because his poetry is so well-constructed.

But Sondheim seems never to have recovered from Harnick's criticism of "I Feel Pretty". He (Sondheim) certainly mentions it often enough.

Personally, I think he forgets that the listener also takes pleasure from awareness of sheer craft. But he is the genius, not I.

[Kad]

Posted: 9/17/12 at 10:35pm

It's easy to forget about the supplementary songs he added to The Frogs (the original songs I like, sans Lane's bookwork, hackneyed political commentary, and schtick. "Hymn to Dionysus" is gorgeous). The newer stuff seems like a Sondheim parody. Perhaps that was his intention, but it doesn't read if it was and doesn't work.

I warmed up to Road Show from my initial reaction- but it's easy to improve from a zero. But it's still... lacking something, something that made so much of his work so great.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/17/12 at 10:36pm

I obviously need to listen to ROAD SHOW again, Eric. Or BOUNCE, since somebody told me that was the better version.

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 9/17/12 at 10:39pm

Not only is Assassins one of the most exciting musicals ever written, in terms of its daringness and the sheerly compelling quality of the material, but I believe that it is the most dramaturgically sound of all the Sondheim shows.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 9/17/12 at 10:41pm

Kad, I certainly agree with your take on Frogs as well as Road Show (I've actually maybe comne around to it even more than you--when I listen to it, I now kinda think "Wow, this isn't bad" or how much I enjoy aspects--and yet, I have absolutely zero desire to pull it, or Bounce, out from the shelf when I go to play one of my cast CDs).

[Kad]

Posted: 9/17/12 at 10:42pm

...really? Because even though I like the concept of all the assassins hanging out, I don't think it's dramaturgically airtight.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/17/12 at 10:44pm

I obviously love the show, Scary, so I don't want to seem to change my mind here.

But while the show is dramaturgically magnificent on the page, I don't think it works as soundly in performance. The fine line between American "can-do" optimism and American disillusion and bitter self-entitlement--the real subject of the vaudeville--simply doesn't read for most viewers in my experience.

[Kad]

Posted: 9/17/12 at 10:47pm

The parts of Road Show I admire involve the Addison/Hollis relationship, which is complex, compelling, and oddly sweet and genuine. It also seems to be an aspect of the show which was overhauled the least over the show's development.
The Willy stuff irks me. I know the brothers' downfall is rooted in history, but the musical doesn't give enough reason for Addison to keep going back to his brother's scams.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/17/12 at 10:48pm

Because even though I like the concept of all the assassins hanging out, I don't think it's dramaturgically airtight.

I agree, Kad. I think the authors wanted to warn us about a sea-change in American attitudes from hope to disappointment;* but I don't think that's clear to most without numerous readings of the text.

ASSASSINS is somewhat like CLOUD NINE in that regard.

*BTW, a mutual friend and former associate of Sondheim's has confirmed that much for me.

[Kad]

Posted: 9/17/12 at 10:54pm

See, I don't necessarily see that. I've always viewed the piece as structured as: introduction, establishment and exploration of the historical characters and events, drawing the conclusion ("Another National Anthem") and climax (book depository sequence), finale.

I think the inclusion of "Something Just Broke", which I've always agreed with, doesn't work in the change of attitudes concept.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/17/12 at 11:01pm

I think the central conflict is between the Balladeer (American can-do optimism) and the assassins ("Where's MY prize?!").

When the Balladeer is finally pushed off-stage during "Another National Anthem", the tide of American disillusionment overwhelms traditional American hope. And that can only lead to Oswald killing Kennedy.

"Something Just Broke", to me, is almost an aside, an acknowledgement of the emotional cost; but since it isn't in my copy of the libretto, I haven't studied it as extensively as the rest of the play.

(Kad, I didn't mean this post to read as "I'm right; you're wrong." I don't think our two interpretations are necessarily mutually exclusive.)

Updated On: 9/17/12 at 11:01 PM

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 9/17/12 at 11:06pm

THe original production was a limited run in preparation for a transfer to Broadway. The reviews and the political climate (coloured by the Gulf war) scuttled plans for a Broadway run. I don't call a limited run at a non-profit off-Braodway theatrea flopw. In fact teh show was completely sold out for teh entire run even before teh first performance (as per a Variety story at the time.)

The Roundabout revival was set to begin rehearsals teh day teh 9/11 attacks happened and the producers decided it was not a good time to stage such a show. It was postponed to 2004 where it opened to great reviews and a Tony Awards for best revival. It was extended a few times but the Republican convention was slated for New York that summer and they apparently put pressure on Roundabout to close the show before the convention. There was fear that a much hated president being in town while a show called ASSASSINS was running might cause problems. (They also forbid their members from attending NAKED BOYS SINGING - a discount flyer was supposed to be added to their welcome kits but Republican organizers had the offer removed.)

The Roundabout revival was deemed non-profit so the hit/flop label doesn't really apply.

ASSASSINS will never be as popular s some of Sondheim's other shows (like INTO THE WOODS)but it is enjoying great success in regional and community theatre stagings across the USA and in Canada.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/17/12 at 11:18pm

Thanks for the production history, frontrow.

[Kad]

Posted: 9/17/12 at 11:39pm

Oh, I didn't think you were saying that, Gaveston.

I think Sondheim's score DEFINITELY embodies that conceit. In fact, the score could almost be a standalone song cycle that nails that. Sondheim subverts basically 100 years of American popular music to get the point across.

But it's Weidman's book that really weakens the piece, as a whole. While Sondheim's score is clearly cohesive, Weidman's book is less so. While the score messes with audience perceptions and juxtaposes popular music with darker themes, Weidman's book is less daring and cohesive. Until you had called the show a vaudeville, I had never really thought of it that way, but it's only sporadically presentational (the Balladeer, typically). The scenes are played straight. And until Mantello made the ghostly carnival midway the unifying location, the piece just sort of took place in a weird metaphysical nebulous... dimension, where time is nonexistent or vague.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 9/18/12 at 12:05am

I really dislike the literalness of the amusement park setting for Broadway. Yes, it obviously jumps off of the shooting gallery opening scene, but it feels lazy to me. While the off-Broadway setting was virtually just limbo (achieved largely with projections from what I've seen), that seems to work best for the play, even if it does make it feel a bit unfinished (I would have liked ot have seen what Sam Mendes did with it at the Donmar, even if that's where Something Just Broke--a song I don't feel works in the piece at all--is from--but I know we' ve had THAT argument many times on here...)

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 9/18/12 at 11:23am

I'm in the Midwest, and our local university just put on a production.

[tazber]

Posted: 9/18/12 at 11:42am

Or BOUNCE, since somebody told me that was the better version.

I mentioned that. I think that Richard Kind's performance is better than Alexander Gemignani's.

I'm enjoying the discussion of Assassins very much.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/18/12 at 8:01pm

Thanks, tazber. I didn't mean to neglect your credit. I hope you can appreciate that I respected your advice enough to remember it.

***

Kad, I didn't see either of the NYC runs, but in the many productions I've seen in LA, the vaudeville-like feeling came through even without obvious vaudeville references. I think it's because the songs are inherently presentational and even many of the scenes, since we know the assassins aren't actually interacting in real time. The Squeaky Fromme/Sarah Jane Moore scene is the perfect example of a vaudeville sketch.

Eric, "Something Just Broke" was added to the LA professional production and was well-sung. But it felt like an "entremes" (that's the Spanish word; what do we call it in English? Intermezzo?) rather than part of the piece as a whole. It was certainly moving to those of us who remember where we were when we heard Kennedy had been shot, but that's not the same thing as furthering the dramatic action of the play.



Updated On: 9/18/12 at 08:01 PM

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 9/18/12 at 8:22pm

I have slightly come around to some of the argument for keeping Something Just Broke, that I've heard on here. But my gut reaction, the two times I've seen it used, still is largely my initial reaction--it feels like it's done as a moment to let audiences slightly off the hook, because they finally see themselves reflected--and one that really dissipates the intensity of the piece (in the productions I've seen), just when that shouldn't be done. Musically it also oddly sounds more like something out of Passion, but this seems typical of Sondheim when he writes new songs for older shows, while working on newer shows (ie Country House from London Follies sounds--musically--like something the Baker and his Wife could sing in Into the Woods).

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/18/12 at 8:43pm

Well said, Eric. I too have only heard "Something Broke" a few times, but I think i agree.

There's something about the terror of "Another National Anthem" and then that scene in the school book depository where one feels one can almost reach out and prevent the tragedy that simply do not call for the extended exposition of "Something Just Broke."

Better to send the audience out without the superficial "catharsis" of that song.

[Owen22]

Posted: 9/18/12 at 8:52pm

In early previews at Playwrights Horizons the authors got crap about actually being too sympathetic to the Assassins. The Balladeer's Ballad of Booth lyrics about "Angry men/Don't write the rules/And guns don't write the wrongs" were not there the first couple of weeks and written to accommodate the critiques.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/18/12 at 8:56pm

I don't doubt what you say for a moment, Owen.

But to me, the word "n*-lover" is the turning point of Booth's "Ballad" and an excellent example of Brechtian estrangement. I don't know how anybody retains any sympathy for Booth after that.

Perhaps the difference was felt in some of the later assassins, however, since some of them kill presidents we barely know and do so in a humorous manner.